Creating a Healthy Mindset in Customer Support

Great customer support starts with mindset.

In this episode, we sit down with returning guest Sarah Caminiti to explore what a healthy customer support mindset actually looks like, why it matters so much, and how leaders can intentionally create environments where support teams can thrive.

We talk about the difference between clearing the queue vs. "building a cathedral", why assuming positive intent is essential for long-term success in support, and how mindset directly impacts everything from customer experience to burnout and team health. Along the way, we dig into creating space to pause, fostering curiosity, celebrating small wins, and helping support professionals take ownership of their work and their careers.

This conversation is for support leaders who want stronger, healthier teams, and for frontline support pros who need a reminder that the work they do is highly skilled, deeply valuable, and worth taking pride in!

We want to hear from you! Share your support stories and questions with us at happytohelp@buzzsprout.com!

To learn more about Buzzsprout visit Buzzsprout.com.

Thanks for listening!

Chapters

• 0:00 How Mindset Shapes the Customer Experience
• 3:31 Sarah’s Update And CX Projects
• 6:43 The Bricklayers Story And Mindset
• 8:55 Why Having the Right Mindset Matters
• 14:51 Effects on Employee Health
• 19:56 Assume Positive Intent as a Practice
• 26:05 Slow Down and Focus on the Customer
• 31:18 Specialization, Triage, and Flow
• 35:30 Encouraging Team Members to Take Ownership
• 42:50 Trying Your Best, Regardless of Circumstances
• 55:15 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Transcript

Priscilla: 0:00

Welcome to Happy to Help, a podcast about customer support from the people at Buzzprout. I'm your host, Priscilla Brooke. Great support doesn't start with tools or processes. It starts with the right mindset. So today we're exploring what a healthy support mindset looks like, why it matters, and how leaders can intentionally create environments where that mindset can thrive. Thanks for joining us. Let's get into it. All right, it's a great day to talk about customer support, don't you think, Jordan?

Jordan: 0:29

Every day is a great day to talk about customer support.

Priscilla: 0:32

That's true, it is. And joining us today on this episode is a return guest. We have Sarah Caminiti joining us again. Hi, Sarah.

Sarah: 0:41

Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me back.

Priscilla: 0:46

Thanks for coming and bringing your exciting, fun, bubbly energy to the pod. I love it so much.

Sarah: 0:52

Always for you guys. I mean, this is a party.

Jordan: 0:54

It is a party.

Priscilla: 0:56

We should change the title to like Customer Support Party Podcast.

Jordan: 0:59

Yeah.

Priscilla: 0:59

Rebrand?

Jordan: 1:00

Let's do it.

Priscilla: 1:00

I like it. Party. Okay, Sarah. So who made your day recently?

Sarah: 1:05

So I was going to talk about my kid, but actually I'm going to talk about my husband because today he gave me a card and it was the sweetest, most thoughtful card about how I am too hard on myself when I think about showing up for my kids and uh that uh I'm doing a great job. And it's just, you know, sometimes you get in your head, and uh, I've got a six-year-old who he just turned six this last week, uh, and he is into so much stuff that I do not understand. And he is so excited about it. And it's so hard to be engaged with someone who is talking gibberish, basically, to you. Uh, and uh, and it's also really hard to be excited to see, no joke, 45 different versions of jump scares that he has created.

Jordan: 1:55

Oh, I'm in that right now, too. I'm oh, I'm so I get it.

Sarah: 1:59

I mean, it's beautiful. I love it all, but it is something to sit through. And so to have my husband like see me see that I needed uh a little reminder and uh, you know, like one of those like centering moments um really was wonderful.

Priscilla: 2:14

It really is so helpful to have a third-party person look in and remind you of the things you know to be true, but that you forget sometimes when you're in the middle of it.

Sarah: 2:24

It's that validation, it's that celebration, it's that, and it's I mean, it's not just like a partnership thing at home. This is something that carries into work, it carries into leadership, it carries into friendship. It's so easy to get, you know, swept away with the day and forget to say thank you, or forget to say I see you, or forget to say great job. And it doesn't have to be for big things. It's just those little, it's it's those small moments that making sure people feel seen, I think, uh carries more power than grand gestures.

Priscilla: 2:59

Yeah, and and noticing the small things proves to the person that you actually are caring about them. It's easy to congratulate people on the big stuff, the big announcements. But when you notice someone on your team, let's put it in a work environment, right? Like someone on your team doing something that is really great, but maybe not very loud, when you point that out, then what they get from that is, oh, this person knows me and they are aware of what I'm doing on a granular basis. So shout out to your husband. That's fantastic. So, Sarah, it's been a year and a half since you were on the show first. Whoa, I know. Crazy. You were our first, like outside of Buzz Sprout guest, and it was so much fun having you on, but it's been a year and a half. So, what has changed? Catch us up on where you are now, what you're working on, what makes you excited about customer support?

Sarah: 3:51

So much has changed. I mean, a year and a half, holy moly. It feels like it's been like 10 years, but also two weeks at the same time. But uh, I mean, it is such an exciting time to be public-facing customer experience professionals because there's so much to talk about and there's so much to call out. And in the last year and a half, I mean, I've moved. Uh, we were in Rhode Island when we first recorded this, and now I'm in the woods in Maine and uh enjoying a wintry wonderland. I'm trying to make it sound a lot more positive than it is because it's just really cold. Um but uh but I've also kind of evolved in the podcasting space, in the writing space, and the conference space, um, which has been such an exciting journey. We've got the CX roundtable that Priscilla has been a part of and will continue to be. Fantastic podcast. It's so much fun just being able to ask those questions that, especially when you're an IC, you don't really know who to ask or how to ask it. And uh the people that have gifted me with their time and trust to be on these episodes are just it always blows my mind. But we're able to actually like provide answers to to harder questions and and hopefully give people a little bit more peace of mind of those everyday things, but also those behind the scenes things that that you know you don't always know are are going on. And so that's been a blast. And uh, I've got my newsletter that has been so rewarding. And uh we have the space series coming to a close, and then that's going to move into power dynamics when the podcast launches for the career strategists, which is season two, technically, of epical growth, where epical growth was the proof that you can lead differently, you can build the career without losing yourself. Um, and then I thought I would be doing a disservice if I did not break down how to do it because it's very easy to be aspirational and it's very easy to look up at people and say they can do it, but then I can't. Yeah. So uh I've created an eight-piece podcast series to teach people how to claim their power and and navigate tricky situations, and uh, and that will kind of flow through from where the space series has left off. So it's a really exciting time.

Priscilla: 6:20

You're doing so many things, and I feel like I'm constantly seeing you pop up in conversations online, and it's just so cool. I think you just do a ton of really cool stuff to move the customer experience landscape forward. And so I'm really excited. I'm excited for the career strategist. I think it's gonna be great. Thank you. So, congratulations on all the fun things you're working on.

Jordan: 6:42

Yeah.

Priscilla: 6:42

So I'm really excited to have you on this episode specifically because I've been thinking a lot about mindset when it comes to customer support and how having the right mindset when you're approaching a job specifically like support is really important in order to do it really well, in order to level it up above kind of your expectation, you know, surface level job. I heard this story the other day, and I was like, well, this is a perfect story to share as the beginning of this podcast. I don't know if you've heard the story of the bricklayers. No. So I guess it says this is a true story, okay? The internet said this was real. So it must be. I don't know how real this is, okay? Some people probably have heard this before. So I guess it was in 1666, there was the London fire. Well, the city of London, I suppose, hired a famous architect, Christopher Wren, to build the St. Paul's Cathedral. And he was observing the building of this and he saw three brick layers. And one of them was like crouched over and laying the bricks and looked kind of bummed. And the second one looked a little bit nicer, but he was, you know, he just wasn't doing it with much enthusiasm. And then the third person laying the bricks was like standing tall. He was really excited about it. He was laying these bricks. And so this architect goes to each one and he asks them what they're doing. He says, So what are you doing? And the first brick layer says, I'm laying bricks. And then he goes to the second one, and the second one says, I'm building a wall. And then he goes to the third person, and that person with all this enthusiasm and excitement says, I'm building a cathedral. And it's this idea that your mindset changes the way you approach the job. And I heard this earlier this week, and I thought, man, that is so good in all of work to think, but also like with support. You could say, Well, what do you do for work? Well, I send emails, I help people log into their account. Okay, that's true. That is what you do. Yeah. But you could say, Oh, I'm representing this brand and I'm supporting our customers. Or you could say, I impact 60 people's days and I make them better through my work and customer support. But that mindset is what differentiates the work you do. And so, as support leaders, how can we encourage that mindset? All right. So, first I want to talk about why having the right mindset matters. Like, why is mindset important? So, Sarah, when you think about great customer support experiences, how much of that do you think comes down to mindset versus like tools and processes and kind of the more technical stuff?

Sarah: 9:10

Well, I think that it's all layered together because I think that a healthy employee experience is always going to have a direct impact on the customer experience. And the story that you just told, I think does lay it out perfectly. And also like from a how a company embraces customer support angle as well, does the company think that they are just a team of people answering emails? Does the company think that they are, you know, all of these different layers? And then finally, does the company think they are building a cathedral? And uh, and so in order to get into that mindset as an IC, as a, as a, you know, a frontline customer support professional, you have to know you're building a cathedral to understand how to approach this with that enthusiasm of what you're trying to do. And too many companies still leave CX in the dark for where things are going, for what their impact is on the company, for how the gold that exists within those CX conversations are changing the roadmap throughout the year and bringing them in. Like it's all about do you feel valued? Like you can go into this with the best mindset of, you know, when my kids tell anyone what their mom does, she helps people be successful. Like that's it. It is, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what my role is. At the end of the day, that is what I'm doing. And and that affords me the opportunity to enter into these spaces with the right mindset because I know that I am helping someone be successful. But if you're new to this, if you're new to customer support, if you're new to customer experience, and you do not feel the impact that you have, if you do not feel it, and I think CSATs, as much as I hate them, are one of the best ways to celebrate those really small moments of impact. So like the people that end up rating a CSAT converse or a conversation with a CSAT score of like, you know, the highest one, and it was just because they forgot their password. That means that to this person that you just helped remember their password, you had such a positive impact on them that they took time out of their day to rate this as a holy cow, thank you so much. And then to be able to receive that and have the whole company see that this one interaction had such a big impact. Yeah, that's going to allow you to continue to be in that mindset of I'm building a cathedral because you see how you're impacting people in these small ways and then tying that to business gains, tying that to product changes, to being invited into different rooms. Like all of these different moments allow you to nurture this positive mindset.

Priscilla: 12:18

Yeah. I think that's such an important thing to remember is that it's not fully inside of yourself. There is this support that you need from your company or from the people you're working with, because sometimes you're not going to get it top-down. And so you need to look for the people that you're working alongside and say, we're going to support each other in fostering this mindset. And I think there's a nice blend, like you said, of like needing good processes and good tools and support in order to build this mindset of taking your work with that extra weight. Cause that really is what you're doing. I agree with what you said. CSAT is not the end-all be-all for measuring success when it comes to support, but it can be a huge encourager for people who are in the trenches writing the emails, laying the bricks. And when someone says, man, you laid that brick perfectly, it can make you go, man, it really does remind me that my impact here can be more than just laying a brick. It can be impacting someone's day. And I think that that's really important to remember. So I was thinking, you know, about this impact of mindset and support and what that actually looks like when it comes to like sending those emails and interacting with customers. Your customers are going to feel your mindset on the other side. So if you are writing an email with a negative mindset or a, oh, I'm just sending this email to clear a cue and then move on, that is going to come across to your customer and it will affect the level of service they get. So when I'm thinking of that like connection to remarkable work or remarkable customer support and mindset, I think there really is a huge tie in there of having the right mindset and doing great work. So when I was in college, I originally was majoring in education. No way. Yeah, I was in education and I was like, I do not want to be a teacher. And if I don't have like a passion for teaching, I should not be in teaching because you can't be a good teacher without that passion.

Jordan: 14:21

Yeah.

Priscilla: 14:21

It's too much of a risky thing to have a classroom where you're not passionate about teaching these kids. And I think there's some truth in customer support with that too. Oh, yeah. You have to have a passion for this or have that right mindset in order to do it really, really well. And if you can't get there, then there are other jobs that you can do really well without having a passion for them. It's just one of those things where that mindset really takes you above and beyond. It really pushes and elevates your work. Another thing we talk about a lot, though, is the health of the employees. So how does your mindset as a worker affect your health as the employee?

Sarah: 14:59

Well, I think it impacts all of it. So let's break down like different components of an employee experience. Do they have the tools that they need to be successful? Not just bare bones tools, like and and then they're asked to do all this manual stuff to achieve the same results. No. Do they have the ability to advocate for themselves and then get what they need? Not, you know, like the thing that drives me nuts is when you hear about the companies that are like, oh, uh, we've got this product. You can use this to do what you need. Like this will work, right? Because we have something that is for marketing, but I think there could be some benefits to using it for what you're asking for. No, no, that's a that's a marketing tool. I need a customer support tool to help me. So, first, do they have the tools that they need to be successful? And right now, there are so many tools that are helping customer support professionals be successful. And it's not taking away opportunities for them to connect with customers, it's giving them that brain space to actually be present in those conversations. Think what the next step is going to be. Plan to see is this the best way to communicate this information, provide opportunities to coach and level up and add to documentation. Like now is such an exciting time to afford these teams the tools to actually be successful rather than just survive. So like that's piece number one. Do they have the tools? And then that also goes with is this a safe space for them to ask questions? Yeah. Because if this is not a safe space for them to ask questions, then they are going to make assumptions and they are going to be filled with doubt. And that doubt is a seed that gets watered so uh easily. Yes. Don't set your team up for that. Like create a space where asking for help shows you care enough to get it right.

Priscilla: 17:00

Yeah. You talk about curiosity a lot in support. I feel like I hear that word from you a lot, this idea of within an employee experience, right? Like you were just saying, asking questions about the work, but then also curiosity when it comes to the actual communication with the customer. Yeah. And I think that's a really good point that you have to foster an environment for your team that encourages that curiosity because it will one, like you're saying, it won't foster the doubt, right? Because people can ask the questions and get clarity on things. But it will also avoid unnecessary mistakes that a question could fix that will help with people feeling proud of the work they're doing, opposed to kind of coming back from making a mistake that now has to get fixed. And then that feeling of, oh, I'm really, I'm really not very good at this. Right, right. When really the reality is you could have asked the question and we could have avoided this altogether.

Sarah: 17:56

Totally. Like anytime someone on my team makes a mistake, I honestly celebrate it because that mistake showed me a crack.

Priscilla: 18:04

Yeah.

Sarah: 18:05

And it is my job to fill those cracks. And if I don't see the crack, I can't fill it. So do you have a document that walks you through this specific scenario? Or do we have one that's kind of similar, but it actually is not going to get you to the result that you need? Oh, well, you follow the one that does like when you first look at it, yeah, I too would have thought that this was the right way to go, but it actually isn't. So now we know, and now we can create a document so that you know when they're saying this specific thing, it means this. And then from the customer's perspective, holy cow, you value me enough to ask me questions so that we go back and forth a couple of times and we get it right. You're not just trying to close this and and move on.

Priscilla: 18:52

Yeah. Wow. You want to understand the situation. Yep. It means a ton to a customer, especially when they ask a question that's not super clear and they don't really understand it. And then you go, oh, I really want to understand this. I really want to see where you're coming from and the situation you're in. It does really impact and and prove to them that as a customer support experience, you actually care about them and you're not just trying to clear a cue. Yes.

Sarah: 19:18

Yeah, because that's what they can feel. And then when you think about like, I think there's way too many parallels between customer support and leadership.

Priscilla: 19:25

Yeah.

Sarah: 19:25

But when I'm leading a team, my goal is to empower the people on my team to be successful, but also be safe enough to ask questions when those questions pop up. And it's the exact same thing to any person that's writing into support. They have hit a point where they can no longer be successful independently. You have to empower them to be able to resolve this on their own and then safe enough to come back and ask you questions if something isn't clear or something comes up two months from now.

Priscilla: 19:56

Yeah. How would you describe the like right mindset for someone who's working in customer support? So if you're trying to kind of like craft what that looks like, how would you describe that mindset?

Sarah: 20:07

Assume positive intent every time.

Priscilla: 20:09

It's like my favorite phrase ever.

Sarah: 20:11

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's it. If you're going into this thinking this is a human being that is taking time out of their day, that's frustrated, that's struggling, this is a blocker for them. They are vulnerable because they are asking for help. And anytime you ask for help, that is a moment of vulnerability. And if you forget that as a customer support person, you are going to end up doing a disservice to those people that you're helping. Like it is not easy asking for help, which is why it's so important as a leader to foster that environment so that the people on your team can develop the tools and the skills and the language to celebrate the fact that these customers were vulnerable enough to come to us and ask for help. So if you are going into this with the mindset of this is a person doing their best, I don't care if they didn't read the help article. I don't care if they asked me the same question three times. I am going to continue to be kind to them. I am going to continue to be thoughtful. I'm going to give this to my boss if, you know, I'm saying the exact same thing over and over. Obviously, you know, they're just not in that headspace right now to receive it. And oftentimes that just means someone else has to say the exact same thing and it'll snap them out of it. Yeah. And then they'll be able to receive it. It's all of these little tricks of the trade that you learn over time or that your leader can can help guide you through so you can see the impact that it has. But it begins and it ends with assuming positive intent. And if your leadership is not assuming positive intent of you, then you will not be able to continue to assume positive intent on your customers.

Priscilla: 21:54

I think that is one of the biggest things for anyone working in customer support in order. To do the work consistently over a long period of time and not burn out and switch careers or switch industries, assuming positive intent is the thing because you will burn out so quickly if you don't do that. If you read every email and try to decipher, oh, are they mad at me or not, like it becomes so difficult. But if you always give them the benefit of the doubt and you look at it in a sense of, I get to help this person, not I have to clear this cue or I have to help this person who's yelling at me, but I get to prove to them that they didn't need to yell in the first place. It's a completely different angle to take on it. And I think it's so much healthier and it's going to let you work so much longer and have more enjoyment in your work if you can approach it in that way instead of in this sense of like, you know, negative, oh my gosh, here we go again. Joe's reaching out and I have to deal with Joe again. The reality is, no, Joe's reaching out because just like you said, he's at a place where he can't move forward anymore. And he has a question. And we're gonna be kind, we're gonna assume positive intent with Joe, and we're gonna do the best we can. And there is a healthiness that comes along with that that allows you to have just more enjoyment in your life, which we're all looking for, honestly.

Sarah: 23:15

Yeah. Yeah. And something that you said too, Priscilla, about like clearing the cue and getting through the queue really fast. I mean, that is a place where leadership has to create an environment where pausing is possible. And if you do not celebrate the pause to take a deep breath, what is this person asking? What's the due diligence that we have to go through to like check all like the standard first round uh checks before we start digging into things? Yeah. Because the moment you start to tell people to be faster without giving them any sort of tools to assist them to be faster, that due diligence is going out the window. And once that due diligence goes out the window, then you are going to be sending them incorrect information because that first level check that you think you don't have to do because this is so obvious and your gut's telling you, you know, just go down this road, it's gonna bite you in the butt. But that that's on the leader to notice. And that's one of the reasons why time to reply is one of my favorite indicators of employee health. Because if I pay attention to first time to reply and I see that it is a really long space, like not ideal. I'm understaffed. Yeah. Then if you start to see things go from a really good spot, like I think that 24 hour reply time is a great average if you have a well-staffed team with the tools that they need to be successful, because you're gonna have those quick wins and those ones are gonna be a lot easier to bang out. But then you're also gonna have the meatier ones that are gonna take you a little bit longer. But if you aim for that bubble, it's a really healthy sweet spot. And so if you start to see those response times go to like, you know, a 20-minute average, we have a problem because something is causing this team to think they have to rush. And what have I done to create a space where people do not feel like they are allowed to take their time and be careful and ask questions and just, you know, you have to be able to sit in it. If you're constantly going through the motions, then I mean your heart rate's gonna go up, your brain is gonna be full because you're not giving yourself that time to let that last one evacuate your brain so that you can have the space for the next one. You're not gonna be able to notice trends because you're not actually in taking information. You're just surface level banging stuff out. And so there's so many detrimental things that happen when you are not given the opportunity to pause.

Priscilla: 26:01

Yeah, I think that's a huge aspect of the right mindset. Earlier you said something about you didn't say it, but I feel like you were alluding to AI, the idea that it's not about deflecting people getting to us at all. It's giving us the ability to slow down. Yep. And I think that that is one of these really strong things that comes along with AI and customer support is that now we have tools that can allow us to slow down and be more focused on these things. And I also think what you just said about noticing trends is a huge one. And I don't think I've really heard anyone say it like that before. But the idea that when you're moving quickly through the queue, you're not fully intaking information in a way that allows you to do something with it outside of the queue to better your support. You're working so quickly, and then you realize, wait, have I answered six of these in the last hour? Maybe there's something going on. Whereas if you're going slowly, you might realize it sooner than that. And I think that's a really big thing as a reason to slow down and a reason that that kind of space and creating that kind of space for your team is really important. And it does come from the top down. I mean, it's support leadership, but you have to get leadership of the company to be in on that because so many people think that response time is the end all be all when it comes to customer support. Like if you get it out fast, we're doing a great job. And that's just not a good indicator of it. I think that pausing is really important. Yeah.

Sarah: 27:34

Well, and if that is the goal, like I mean, I've worked for a company where the founder said in his mind, response time should be two hours flat for the super technical thing.

Priscilla: 27:43

Yeah.

Sarah: 27:43

And it's like, well, that's like a five million dollar investment to achieve that. Yeah. Like you have to have an incredibly well-staffed, well-trained team with tools that go above and beyond what the standard tool, you know, suites have. You have to have collaboration with every single department in a way that is so ingrained into understanding these customer inquiries to be able to escalate in the moment. Because if two-hour response time is your goal, I would assume, and I hate assuming, but I would assume that you are not then thinking that they have to wait three weeks for a resolution. You are expecting this type of reply cycle to be pretty, pretty quick. Uh, so it's sure, yeah, we all want that instant gratification, but that comes with a very, very hefty price and headcount is it. Yeah. Like that's the only way to achieve often many of these lofty goals.

Priscilla: 28:47

Yeah. So we've talked about having space and curiosity and those kind of things. What are some of the other kind of attitudes that you would see in someone who has that healthy mindset in support?

Sarah: 28:59

Well, when I've seen this in the past on teams that I've led, they are usually the people that are quick to help others on their team. So they'll jump in and point them in the right direction or even just say, I don't know, so that they feel like it's okay to not know this one. This one's tricky. And then maybe give them a heads up of someone on engineering that they should reach out to to go into that question. And it's someone who has that assuming positive intent mentality, who has that mindset of, I like what I do. I feel like I'm empowered to do my job well. That has a ripple effect. And so you just you see it in those slack communications. You see it in the way that they volunteer to help with certain things. Because also people that have that positive mindset when they're doing their work, they feel supported. So they're, they're able to do the things that make them happy, they're able to do, you know, I think that there's a lot to be said about figuring out how to triage in a way that makes sense for for your team. And so if you're triaging in a way that this one person who just loves being able to problem solve a certain topic and they're really good at it, if you triage in a way that celebrates that and allows them to do that, well, then they're going to feel fulfilled every day because they're actually able to do what they love to do. And too often you see this push for being a generalist, like long-term in support. And 1000% when you first join a team, being a generalist is is what you have to do. You have to be able to play, you have to be able to fail, you have to be able to connect dots. But then you have to be able to not have to context switch all the time. You have to be able to understand the ins and outs of certain questions. And how the heck are you supposed to do that when you've got 12 different complex buckets that you have to swim through every day and another opportunity to spot trends? Well, if if you're not doing everything, you can actually pay attention to what's happening in front of you.

Priscilla: 31:17

Right. I heard this, I don't know, years ago. I was in a leadership meeting and we were talking about things we like to do versus things that we have to do and like looking at your day and figuring out how much of it brings you joy and how much of it doesn't, and looking at the things that don't bring you joy and finding ways to get those off your plate. It was the first time that I had really like thought about like, oh, wait, the things that I don't like to do, I don't have to do those. I can find someone else who does like to do those things and they can do that and they'll do it better than I could ever do it because I don't like to do it. And there was a little bit of like this freedom of like, that is not how we think about work. That is not how we, as a society, think about work. We think about work like this is the thing I have to do in order to make the money to live the life that I want to live. But if you look at it like, hey, I am not gonna do the thing that I really dread doing, but that Sarah loves to do. So Sarah can do that thing and I'm gonna focus on the things that I love to do, and we're gonna balance each other well, and all the things are gonna get done way better than if we were doing them a different way. I think that is kind of like alongside what you were just talking about, with like, you know, when you're triaging an inbox as a leader, you can go, well, I know this person is really good with the technical stuff. So I'm gonna get this to her because I know she's gonna enjoy that more. And I'd rather her do that than Jimmy because Jimmy doesn't like the tech stuff. He's so much better when it comes to this. And so I'm gonna get the things to him. And I think that someone that's able to do that for their team, that is the sign of a really great leader who's able to use people in a way that matches their strengths and the things that make them happy.

Sarah: 32:56

Oh, totally. And I think that there's like if you do it in a really transparent way, you can then leverage that to notice gaps that need to be filled within your team. You can leverage that for upskilling. You can notice that for mentoring on things. But then also as you start to think about career pathing within support, I mean, in order to have the right mindset, you need to be able to know that, you know, you you've got places to go. This is not just gonna be your forever unless you want this to be your forever, which is great. And then that's something that you can communicate with your leader. But, you know, it's it's good to evolve in in certain things over time. And now with AI and with all of these different conversations about, you know, where where the CX industry is going, understanding the people that you have on your team, understanding the way that customer support and customer experience should be interacting with every single corner of the business, like it should be the center of every single thing that's happening within a business. How do you create a career path, a growth strategy for your teams to be elevated and empowered to be those connectors to do those things that they love? So if it's somebody that is really, really great at explaining things, like they know how to break it down in such a way that just gets across the tech people all the way down to those people that just can barely figure out how to turn on their computer.

Priscilla: 34:23

Right.

Sarah: 34:24

See if they're interested in being on like the onboarding and training track and they can start leveling up, you know, the next round of hires. They can create the curriculum, you know, they'll still be in the queue. I think it's important if you're in CX, you always have a touch point within the queue. But create a path for people that are like them to thrive and feel proud of what they do in a broader sense. Or, you know, if you've got someone that is really great at AI, okay, well, we're gonna have to have people that are managing all of these tools that are doing QA on the outputs that are teaching it and and all of that stuff. So let's create a career path for that and have it be visible and have it be communicated and have it be celebrated because if you feel valued, if you feel seen, if you feel that you are being approached with positive intent, like that's curiosity at its finest. It's creating space for people to be curious about where their career can take them, but within the space of customer support, because you don't always have to leave to be able to grow and evolve and do what you love.

Priscilla: 35:29

Yeah. And it encourages this idea of ownership over the work you're doing. Because when you know that, oh, I'm on this track or I'm being used in this way because this is a strength of mine. And my leaders told me that this is, you know, and I see it and they see it, you have this sense of ownership, which I think is something that's really important in customer support and probably doesn't happen as often as we want it to, is this idea that the work I'm doing, I'm not just a cog in a machine. I am taking ownership of this email that I'm sending. And that is another part of this like mindset of how am I gonna do this really well? Well, I'm gonna encourage everyone on my team to have this sense of ownership over every brick they lay, every email they send, every project they work on, because that is such a big part of wanting, like that internal motivation to do really well, to do really good work, that comes from having this sense of ownership over the work you're doing. And if you don't have that, I mean, we've all worked under leaders that are super micromanage-y leaders, and you're like, it doesn't matter what I do because they're gonna tell me exactly how to do this. And so all I have to do is lay the brick down and move on to the next brick. But then you lose that internal motivation to do really good work. Right. And so there is this aspect of as a leader, give your team space, let them feel that ownership and let them get on that path and walk toward the thing that they love to do. And it will help foster that mindset of ownership of all of these things that are really important for customer support.

Sarah: 37:02

I love that you said that. Ownership for your success is a pillar of any team that I lead. Like if I'm doing team values, that is one of them because it also alleviates a lot of the responsibility of the leader to hand them their career path on a silver platter. It's like I don't have the mental capacity to be able to tell you what you're good at and tell you how to do it and tell you to take pride in what you do and like all of these little things. It's like, no, like I'm operating at a higher level. I'm not in the trenches with you. So if you see a gap, fill it and talk to me about it. And if if it didn't fill it all the way, let's figure out why. If it did fill it, can we replicate this to fill other cracks? Like there's so much to be said about the power of autonomy and about, you know, taking that. I mean, talk about a mindset shift of being responsible for yourself and your success and your opportunities and and your growth as a leader. You have to draw a line in the sand. I will say to my teen, I'm always a safe space to vent, but you get one free vent where we're not talking about how we're gonna solve it. Yeah. But then the next time, come with what your plan is.

Jordan: 38:25

Yeah.

Sarah: 38:25

How are you gonna prevent this from happening? Because yes, there's gonna be days that suck. And I want you to know that you can just unload on me. But if you're unloading on me for the exact same thing every single Tuesday, then you have to take ownership for this. You have to come up with a strategy and let's work on this together. But it's not my responsibility as your boss, as your leader, to tell you what each thing is. And with that mindset, you get so much more pride in what you do. Yeah.

Priscilla: 38:57

And there are some bosses where they do feel like it's their role. And because they do that so much, you feel like I can't do it on my own. I need someone else to tell me. And there's a lot of us. I know for me, I came from another career where I did not have the kind of autonomy I have now. And to move over and then all of a sudden have it, it can be really hard. Yeah. It can be really hard to be like, okay, now I have to within myself find a way to grow this ownership of my own career because no one's handing it to me. No one's telling me exactly what turn to take and where to go. And I think it can be really hard, but it's really important. And healthy leaders who are fostering a healthy team will be there to walk alongside you and do it, but they're not gonna hold your hand over every, you know, hurdle exactly that same way. And so I think finding a way internally to say, okay, I'm gonna take ownership and responsibility for the work I'm doing, and I'm gonna be proactive in that and I'm gonna be intentional in that. All of that comes from within and your leader can help you get there, but a lot of it is a decision you're making every day.

Sarah: 40:04

1000% because change is hard. Change is hard, yeah, change is scary, yeah, change is gray. I've seen this too many times on teams that I've led or people that I've mentored that are in similar situations, where especially when some of that change, like this owning your success, you have to be held accountable for your output. Like you have to be held accountable for the work that you do and and the role that you play within this unit. And that is a very threatening thing for some folks that, you know, are enjoying what they've built for themselves or or or lack thereof. And and I mean, I've done it myself before too. I mean, especially if you're underpaid, I'm not going to give a rat's batootie about anything else, just like a hundred percent. I'm gonna get through my day. But I mean, if you are paid well, then this is a career for you. And then you need to behave like a professional. And uh, and and you can't fight that because like you can try to spin this as a negative thing, you can try to spin this as a they're trying to control me, they're trying to take me out of doing these things, like this is so burdensome. But really, it's you are now being given the gift to try things and fail sometimes. This is a safe space. But if we're entering it with positive intentions and we assume the same of those that are around us, and if we enter these different things that we try, like I always ask my teams, like give this a specific block of time. Like, usually it'll be like either six weeks or three months. It may suck. Like it could be failing miserably, but let's just commit to this for three months. And I will put something on the calendar for three months from today for us to do a debrief of this, for us to do a post-mortem of this, figure out what worked, figure out what didn't. But if we are entering into this with the mindset of this sucks, this is terrible, this is gonna fail, this is gonna be a waste of my time, this is gonna make my days so much harder, then it will make your days so much harder. Yeah. But if you enter into it with, you know what, I may not agree with this choice. I may have done this differently, but I'm going to do my best and try this for three months. And then after that, we will open the door to figure out what the best next step is. But I'm going to do this with the best of intentions, regardless of how crappy I think it is at the end of the day. That will change your mindset in a positive way over time because you're choosing every day to try. You're choosing every day to be open to something different.

Priscilla: 42:48

And it's more enjoyable. Right. It's just a more enjoyable way to live, to want things to succeed versus to go in knowing they're already going to fail. And I think even that trying things and I do the same thing. I'll put like a, you know, an end cap on it and say, let's try it for this long and see how it goes. And let's give it a good shot and see how things happen. And then we'll we'll readjust when we find out how it went. And I think that even that mindset of like trying and failing, and hey, this might not work, and we're gonna commit three months to it, and then we're gonna see. I think that mindset is huge because so much you hear about companies where, well, why do you do it this way? Well, that's just the way we've always done it.

Jordan: 43:26

Yeah.

Priscilla: 43:26

And if that's the way you've always done it, then that must be the right way to keep doing it. But that is not the right mindset to have. No, because things are always changing. There's always better ways to attack problems. And so having this mindset of, okay, I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try it. And if it fails, it fails, and we're gonna move on and we're gonna try something new. And I sometimes look at it as like it's almost exciting just to see what's gonna happen. Like, right. My hypothesis is not the same as yours. I don't think it's gonna turn out the way you think it's gonna turn out, but let's see. It's exciting to try it. Yeah. It just makes life more enjoyable if you have that kind of a positive. Positive outlook on things. Yep. We've all worked at the jobs where everything was negative, where everyone was talking negatively about everyone in the company, and every day was a slog because it was all so negative. Yeah. And when you have that kind of a negative mindset, it can really be detrimental to your health as an employee or for your team, or when you're fostering like those little side conversations and all of that stuff. It's so negative. If you're able to pull yourself out of that, which can be really hard, especially if you are working for a company that has a lot of that negativity around there, but you can, you can pull yourself out of that and focus on the positive things and try to get into a place where you're seeing this as building a cathedral and not just laying bricks. You can do that. You said something about like if you're being paid enough, it's a lot easier to do that. I think that 100% is true. But sometimes you don't have the luxury of leaving the job you were in because you're not being paid enough to find somewhere else before you start thinking like that. Yeah. And so sometimes you have to find a way to think like that, even if you're not being paid what you should be getting paid. It's like the chicken or the egg. You know, once I start thinking that way and start valuing the work I'm doing in that way, then I start seeing that I need to be paid more. Then I start seeing my value better and I can sell myself better to other companies and they can pay me what I deserve. And that will encourage it. If you are in a mindset of, well, I'm not getting paid enough, so I'm just gonna do the bare minimum because I'm not getting paid enough, you're never gonna get out of that. Right. But if you start to go above and beyond it, you will start to see your value better and you'll be able to get to another place.

Jordan: 45:41

This is like the inner monologue version of dress for the job you want, not the job you have.

Priscilla: 45:45

Yes. Yeah. Create the mindset that you want to have for the job that you dream to have.

Sarah: 45:51

Yeah, exactly. I think too, like I'm just like thinking back on, I mean, I've had so many jobs where I am paid pennies for the work that I do. And yeah, and I think it is such an empowering and beautiful moment of clarity that is really easy to kind of sweep under the rug. But when you get to that space where you can embrace it, like crazy things happen. But like that moment of clarity where it's like, I'm better than this. I deserve more than this, then you're able to start to think of what's possible for you. You're able to start to think of what you deserve, what is worthy of your gifts to make a company or a space better. And that when you start thinking about the future, when you start thinking about what's possible in a way that is exciting, you are going to be in a better mindset and headspace when you're at your job because you know it's not forever. Like if I know that I'm in this space that they don't appreciate me, that I haven't had a raise for three years, that somebody else always gets the promotion that I want. That is not a place where you are going to thrive.

Priscilla: 47:06

Right. Yeah.

Sarah: 47:07

Period. That's that's not a good space for you. But that is where you are in this moment. So take a deep breath and start thinking about what brings you joy.

Priscilla: 47:16

Yes.

Sarah: 47:17

And how can you leverage that to find a place that is going to be so freaking excited that you are with them. And like then you think, like, you know what? I just gotta suck it up for a little while longer. I just gotta power through this a little while longer. Maybe I do take on that project that marketing was trying to find somebody to help with because then I can add that to my resume. Yeah. And then I can say that I have this sort of experience. Maybe I can see if I can shadow this person for a little while. So then I can kind of understand the terminology that people in finance have that I don't know anything about. Like you start to take advantage of things that felt so burdensome, or you felt like you were drowning, or you felt like you were backed into a wall. That we've all been in those head spaces. Those are normal head spaces to be into when you're in a bad environment. But just seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and understanding that you are not defined by this crappy place, that they are missing out because you are amazing and you are capable of so much more than you realize. And then taking that to find the place that gets you excited, that's how you survive those mindset shifts in those crappy places.

Priscilla: 48:36

It takes me right back to what you were talking about at the very top of the show with your husband making your day with that note. Sometimes you're in those places and you cannot see your strengths as a worker because you've been in this environment for so long and you feel negative and frustrated, and you don't have space to ask questions. And so you feel like you're just messing up right and left, and it's not providing a healthy environment for you. Sometimes the best thing you can do is go to people that are not in that environment, but that know you and ask them to remind you why you're really good at this or what your strengths are. Because that mindset, once you get into that like self-doubt and that I can't do anything right and I'm paid this little meager amount and they don't see my value, you start to believe that that's your value. Yep. And it can be really hard. But stepping out and finding people that are outside of maybe they're outside of your work, maybe it's a colleague who you have a really good relationship with, maybe it's a leader in your company who sees a value in you. But find that person and get them. I mean, just straight up ask them to remind you why you're good. Because sometimes you need that. Our minds play tricks on us. And once you hear that, then you'll start seeing what your value is. And then you can go, okay, now I'm gonna go and see where I can find a team that's gonna recognize my value and see the things that I bring to the table. Yep. Because the reality is you have strengths in you, you have that value. And if you're in an environment that is not supporting that, then you shouldn't stay in that environment any longer than you have to.

Sarah: 50:11

Yeah. Yep. I think that's it right there. And if you are a leader, this is why one-on-ones are so freaking important. They are not nice to have. They are required for you to actually run a team well. And uh, if you're in a team that's understaffed, have weekly one-on-ones so that your team feels that you are listening, that you see them, that you understand things suck right now, but it's not forever. Yeah. Like celebrate those little wins. Don't just hide because you know that things are terrible or you think that taking them out for 30 minutes is going to make things worse. It's not. It's it's going to make them feel valued, that even when things are crazy, you care enough about them to pull them out because the queue will survive for 30 minutes without them and do that level setting, that that I see you moment. So that, you know, even if you're leading a team where the pay is crap, like we all know you don't probably have any control over your budget. You are probably very underpaid as well. And so just help those folks see their value, help them identify their strengths, remind them that you know, like it's not in their head. And because just like you were saying, Priscilla, and I'm so glad that you did, like, you start to believe it. If you are constantly told that you are less than, if you are constantly told that you are never going to deserve a job that pays you a livable wage, if you are told that, you know, all of these reasons why this is the only place that you should be spending your day, then your inner voice is just going to get louder and louder because all it's doing is validating it. And I told my husband the other day, like in my head, especially when it comes to like, you know, my kids and whether or not I'm showing up right for as a mom when things can get hard, like I have that negative monologue going all the time. And if you say, hey, I noticed that you were having a hard time connecting with him, that's just validating that one negative thing. And then if that one is true, then are all of the other things true? And then you just start to spiral. And so having someone in your corner that is your hype person that recognizes that, like you probably are saying all the bad things times a million to yourself when you get into those mental spiral moments. The best way to pull someone out of that is to just remind them that they're really great. And that's it.

Priscilla: 52:47

Yeah. And give them examples. And when you have those one-on-ones with your team, point out the things they're really good at and point out the successes that they've had. And even if you spend the entire 30 minute or whatever it is, one-on-one, just telling them all the things they're great at, that is a totally valid use of that time.

Sarah: 53:05

Great use of that time.

Priscilla: 53:07

Great use of that time. I think when I first started leading a team, I think that there was something in me that I was more focused on the sharpening of the axe and the getting better and less focused on the, hey, let's talk about the things you're really good at, though. Let's take a second and do that. And that is so directly connected to the mindset that then they're gonna turn around and take when they are giving your customers that experience. If they have that healthy input from you of here are the things that you're really great at, here's what I see in you, they're gonna take that and they're gonna use that and be positive and encouraging to your customers. And there is a huge trickle-down effect. And so, as leaders, it's our job to make sure we're connected enough with the people on our team that we can see those things and that we can pour into those things.

Sarah: 53:59

And also then celebrate when you see them start to do that with other folks on the team or other folks within the company too. Because once they see that value of their cup being filled by by the things that you're saying, and they notice somebody else that they're working with or collaborating with that is being too hard on themselves, then it won't be a heavy lift for them to be like, whoa, I see you. You are crushing it. Why are you telling me that this sucks? This is so good. Do you see what you've accomplished already? Right. Like, and then, and then you don't have as heavy of a lift as a leader to always be that hype man in those one-on-ones because they're getting these little nuggets throughout the week from their peers, which sometimes carries an even bigger weight than from your leader.

Priscilla: 54:48

And that variety helps too. Like if the same person tells you you're great at this every week, eventually it loses its shine. But you hear from other people and it reignites this feeling. And so 100% when someone says something kind to me about someone else on the team, I'm like, go post that in a public chat. Like, go post that in front of them. Let them see that you're celebrating them because that's so important and it can do so much good when it comes to our mindset. Okay, final thoughts to wrap this up. What, Sarah, do you hope that support professionals remember about mindset going forward? What do you want them to take with them as they are kind of moving into their work here in 2026?

Sarah: 55:30

I love that question. What I hope that they take with them as they're moving into 2026 is a constant reminder that you are a highly skilled professional, that your skill set is rare. Very few people can do what you do. Yeah. And the fact that you are committed to building a career in this space that can be, it can be hard and it can be demoralizing sometimes, but it can really be one of the most beautiful spaces to thrive. Just constantly remind yourself how skilled you are and how proud you should be that you are in this career because it is not an easy career to build.

Priscilla: 56:13

I think that's great. And it reminds me of like those early years in customer support where you kind of feel like, or I felt like, I don't know if this is a universal experience, but for me, it was like, oh man, I'm this is like grunt work. It takes so much skill to do customer support well. And so if you're listening to this podcast because you're trying to level up your experience, you're already doing so much better than people will expect because of these low standards people have for customer support. And so I 100% back that. Like the work you're doing is valuable. What you bring to the table is valuable. Not everyone can do this. And that should be an encouragement to you as you go into your work day to day. And you can choose a mindset then of excellence, and you can choose a mindset of empathy, of assuming positive intent, of responsibility as you continue to lay those bricks and build the cathedral and impact people's day in a positive way through customer experience. So, Sarah, thank you for being here. This was really great. Thanks for having me. You're such a positive light. Tell me how people can reach you. If people want to learn more about you or listen to your podcasts or read your newsletter, how can people reach you?

Sarah: 57:26

Yeah. Well, first, like I could talk to you guys about this forever. This has been very like cathartic being able to talk about this with you guys because I think it's such an important thing that often just kind of gets overlooked. But it is a really, really important piece of the puzzle. Um, so if you're looking for me, you can find me on LinkedIn. I am there probably too much. I have a newsletter that you can subscribe to where we dig into different concepts on space and ownership and power that comes out every Wednesday. I've got the CX roundtable that digs into different uh CX related topics. And then there's the career strategist to talk about owning your success. Talk about owning your success and power dynamics, but uh, don't be a stranger. I I am excited to talk to anybody in this space and answer any question that I have. So please reach out.

Priscilla: 58:16

Yeah, and I highly recommend anything Sarah touches because I feel like back with epic growth, those podcast episodes were so great. I was reading the newsletter this morning and I was like, man, this is so well written. It's not even just like great content, but it's just well written. It's in a very readable way. I think sometimes, you know, newsletters in the corporate world can be, you know, sometimes subpar. But I was reading yours this morning and I was like, man, this is just so well written. She has so many good things to say. So I 100% recommend the podcasts and the newsletter to anyone listening because they really are so incredible. Thank you. All right. Well, if you have a question or a topic that you would like us to cover in a future episode, you can shoot us a text message using the send us a text link in the episode description. As always, if you like this episode, share it with someone who works in customer support, maybe someone who needs some encouragement. So thanks again to Sarah Camonidi for joining us on today's episode. Thank you for listening. Now go and make someone's day.